Submitted by: BigBat
March 19, 2023
Let’s just get it over with already so we can solidify this team for the next 5-6 yrs.
Pepiot joins the rotation immediately and Nastrini isn’t too far away. I do suspect that the Guardians would shorten Nastrini’s arm action before promoting him. He’s got very good stuff and he’s durable.
Cartaya isn’t quite ready, but he doesn’t have to be. He can work on his defensive skills and pitching management in the minors for another season. He and Bo would make one heck of a tandem.
Outman has the defense and offensive profile to make him a special CFer. Pretty much another Grady Sizemore with a much stronger arm.
The Dodgers get at top 10 SP, a fantastic BP arm and a stopgap SS with more offensive upside than Rojas.
As i was reading this they did a quick talk on espn 850 about Bieber being traded. Rizzo said he’s not staying in Cleveland.
He’s a California kid. So you are either trading him now, at the deadline or next offseason. His value falls the longer you wait.
I would take Karinchak out and sub some prospects in for him. Be hard to do this trade now with the team in contention but
you would have to consider it.
That is exactly right ThePirate, and CA never said that he wasn’t trading Bieber in 23. What he did say is that Bieber would not be traded this winter and that he expects Bieber to be part of Cleveland’s WS contention possibilities. Anyone can go read the quotes. More importantly to me is past actions and behaviors and the results of those. If, by some crazy chance that Bieber is extended then disregard all of this, but it’s highly unlikely and it would be better for the organization’s health and stability to trade Bieber now IMO. That doesn’t have to be shared as we all have our opinions, but to state that now is the best time to maximize his value is simple fact/logic. Even if it is likely, it’s not impossible that the production from the return could improve the quality of the team as a whole. Clearly you aren’t going to get a proven replacement for Bieber in return, but you will get potential.
Thankfully, Cleveland would not do this. How many years of Jose Ramirez do you want to waste?
First off, you don’t know that Cleveland wouldn’t do this and how is it wasting years of Jose Ramirez? This deal is making the Guardians more competitive for more years of Jose even if it isn’t in 23 and there’s no guarantee that it doesn’t help this season. This team doesn’t look to have what it takes this season so it’s probably a waste anyway. Bieber isn’t likely to accept the offer that Cleveland gives him so not capitalizing on his value is the real waste. History and common sense should tell you that Bieber will not be walking into FA in a Cleveland uniform.
This badly hurts Cleveland in 23… They aren’t going to do this deal. I don’t get why you don’t want to win in 23…
What makes you think I don’t want to win in 23? What makes you think that Pepiot, Outman and Ferguson wouldn’t help the Guardians win in 23? What makes you think that this deal wouldn’t almost certainly help the Guardians for years?
You don’t know if it hurts the Guardians in 23 or not. What could hurt the Guardians in 23 and years after is Bieber getting injured and losing all his value. What could hurt the Guardians is them not winning with Bieber on the roster and watching his value fade as FA nears. What could hurt the Guardians is Bieber underperforming and losing value. Like it or not, we’ve probably already seen the best of Bieber. Have you not noticed the slight loss of velocity?
You’re incapable of reason. You just get an idea in your head and post it as fact when in fact you have no evidence to support your declaration. It’s tiring to be honest.
Big Bat, to stay in contention for 2023, you are expecting Pepiot, a rookie, to pitch to Bieber’s level. That is a huge ask and not very likely as a rookie. I would argue that Bieber’s 2023 stats mean more to the Guardian franchise than the extra trade return that can be gained trading him now. I agree with Sportscoach. They did not sign Josh Bell to take a step back in 2023. Antonetti always tries to balance today and the future. Your trade does not follow that idea.
As far as Joshua Iverson’s article, I lost any interest in it when he included Anders Gimenez on the list.
Go read the article by Jason Iverson about the next group of trade candidates. Bieber is in there and I think he’s spot on in regards to him.
They’ve made a habit of and building a very strong organization around trading SP too soon rather than too late, minus Kluber of course and that damn near bit them in the arse.
Antonetti already stated they aren’t trading Bieber in 23… I don’t get how you don’t understand that since he never says stuff like that…
Plus Going from Bieber to Pepiot is going to affect the win-loss big time. Then Ferg is a fine LHRP, but they don’t amount to more than 1-2 bWAR a season normally. Outman is a wild card, but he has no place on the roster right now. I want the dude, don’t get me wrong, but you cannot expect him to have a roster spot with Straw as the starter…
This deal isn’t for 23, it’s for the long term, but Antonetti isn’t making deals with the 26 man for long term. They just put money into Bell and Zunino. They aren’t downgrading their starters for the long term…
That’s not at all what Antonetti said, but it’s your story.
You don’t know if going from Bieber to Pepiot “is going to affect the win-loss big time”. Again, your opinion and way to look at things in a vacuum.
You shouldn’t expect a shitty hitter like Straw to have a starting spot on a contending team.
This deal could help them in 23 or it may hurt them in 23 or it may be a non-factor. Can’t say until the games are played. After all nobody expected anything from them last season did they? Now, after that you want to cling to middling players and watch all of Bieber’s value wither. I’m not on board with that.