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Guardians & Brewers

November 27, 2022

Guardians

Name Age Level P1 P2 Availablility Years AFV Salary Surplus Low Median High
Woodruff 29 Majors SP Very low 2 65.3 27.5 37.8 30.3 37.8 45.4

Brewers

Name Age Level P1 P2 Availablility Years AFV Salary Surplus Low Median High
Allen Minors LHP 9.4 7.5 9.4 11.3
Curry Minors RHP 4.4 3.5 4.4 5.3
Valera Minors OF 26.6 21.3 26.6 31.9
24 Comments
  1. Big Bat

    Might be better to replace Valera with Rocchio here. I’d give MIL the choice.

    This deal pairs up with my other deal with MIA and gives Cleveland a rotation Bieber, Lopez, McKenzie, Woodruff and Quantrill.

    If MIL would prefer to get Quantrill then the deal would have to be reconstructed, but it’s impossible to do here with Quantrill’s value so low.

  2. J.M. F.

    The Brewers are loaded with outfield prospects so they would likely say no here.

    • Big Bat

      That’s why I said “it might be better to replace Valera with Rocchio here”. I also said I’d give them the choice because I’m not sure if they have any OF prospects as good as Valera.

      • J.M. F.

        Why didn’t you look it up before posting. How hard could that be? You lectured me on another post to look beyond 2022. Practice what you preach. Milwaukee would likely ask for Bibee or Williams anyway. I doubt Allen and Curry would excite them.

        • Big Bat

          Why don’t you quit being a prick? Where did I “lecture” you? The Brewers may or may not prefer Valera. I cannot answer that so I provided an option because they can’t both be in the deal. Allen would absolutely excite them and they’re not going to get a SP prospect like Bibee, Williams or Espino with Woodruff.

          • J.M. F.

            Look in the mirror about being a *****. You jumped all over my case on your other proposal with the Marlins accusing me of only looking at 2022 and not doing research so I called you here for your poor research. If you can’t take the return heat, then shut your big mouth. I am frankly tired of your condescending attitude. Who died and made you king know it all? Learn to discuss respectfully.

    • Nate Dub

      You said this literally a few days before the Brewers went out and signed a pre-arb OF free agent (Perkins) LMAO.

  3. jay monty

    BigBat; The Brewers #1 (#5 MLB) is an outfielder. Their #s 2-3-4 (all top 100) are outfielders. Their #8 & 11 prospects are outfielders. The Brewers would never accept this deal regardless if Rocchio was included. Allen got hit hard at AAA. Curry is a mediocre prospect. Rocchio was bad (.234/.298) at AAA. If the Brewers trade Woodruff they could do a heck of a lot better.

    • Ty Archy

      Allen struggled at AAA, but you know it’s his second season pitching in the minors right? People are bound to hit a snag and that’s all it was. He is still a very highly ranked prospect. When it comes to Rocchio they were aggressive with his placement cause of internal promotions. He was 21 years old and that was stats from 33 games. He was 5+ years younger than the average at AAA. He’s on every single top 100 list out in baseball for a good reason…

      Now, Brewers don’t need Valera, I have to agree with that one. Curry is a BOR SP, but one most teams would take him since he can pitch and has enough talent to be at worst a solid reliever. He would be a top 10 prospect in the Brewers system…

      Brewers aren’t going to get the package for Woodruff that you wish…

      • Big Bat

        We should define what “struggled” means exactly. He K’d 11/9IP in AAA. The problem was his 4.4 BB9 when it was 2.7 in AA and 2.1 in AA and A+ the season before(2021).

        Allen probably enters as MIL’s #3 or #4 prospect. Rocchio would be their #2 or #3 prospect. Curry would be in their top 10 right now too.

        They could take Freeman if they prefer, but I don’t know why anyone with a brain would do that. Rocchio’s ceiling is much higher and he’s likely to reach it. As you know some compare his tool set to Lindor. Rocchio has actually displayed slightly more power at the same age.

        Considering the cost and the uncertainty of Cleveland’s willingness to deal Rocchio, a better target might be Lauer. What do you think Coach?

        • Ty Archy

          If you are looking for just pure value to replace Lauer with someone similar stats wise, yes, Cleveland would do that since he isnt going to command a lot. But if you are looking at that level of value, why not Blackburn of the A’s and some others like Kelly of the DBacks… I feel like Cleveland wants an upgrade over Plesac not just a swap/eplacement on paper…

          • Big Bat

            Lauer is not just a “swap” for Plesac. It’s not even close Coach. If you have the time look into Lauer a little deeper to understand the changes he has undergone in the last 2 seasons.

            I’ve mentioned Kelly from Arizona before. In fact, I mentioned getting both Kelly’s from Arizona, but Merrill is 34 while Lauer is 27 and just entering his prime. I still like Merrill though, but I would prefer Lauer.

    • Big Bat

      That’s fine jmont1. That’s why I stated Rocchio could be an option and clearly you know little about him. The Brewers would absolutely accept this deal if they need a good SP prospect, a damn good MIF prospect with GG ability and a very well rounded bat along with a SP they can work in the back of their rotation now. Curry was better than a mediocre prospect. In fact, he is a better prospect than Woodruff was at a much younger age so…….

      Allen was promoted extremely fast through the system. He was 23 for the season and pitched in AA and AAA when most his age are at A+. Yes he gave up more hits than he did at the lower levels, but he also struck out more too. He’s perfectly fine and is going to be a very good ML SP. I don’t view him as a potential TOR starter like Espino, Williams and Bibee, but he easily has a MOR SP ceiling. Easily.

      I’ll take the bet that the Brewers could do a lot better. They’re not going to get a SP prospect like Espino, Williams or Bibee with Woodruff. You’re underestimating the depth and quality of Cleveland’s farm system. It’s top 3 and I believe some have it #1.

      • Nathan Thompson

        Milwaukee has Brice Turang in AAA, a 50 FV SS coming off a 108 wRC+ season and his glove earns the same grade as Rocchio. Personally, I like Rocchio more than Turang but if I’m the Brewers and I’m placing Woodruff on the trade market I’m not looking to build a deal around someone a little better than what I already have in the system.

        What they need is pitching. They prefer arms with big stuff and are willing to work on the control. I like Allen but that’s not his profile and to think you can deny the Brewers the guys that they’d naturally want simply means Woodruff, if traded, isn’t going to Cleveland.

        • Ty Archy

          Cleveland isn’t willing to give up their top pitching prospects (Espino, Williams and Bibee) for someone with two years of control. You being a small market fan, you get why. Woodruff also has missed time here and there cause of injuries, so that’s a bit of a question mark as well. Brewers fans may not get what they want back for Woodruff, but they also need to cut cap, so it may be a rough decision on what they get back. On paper Cleveland can give them a lot of value though, so BPA or help in 23, they will have to decide that one… It’s going to be hard to get both. Woodruff just fits the type of upgrade Cleveland wants to replace Plesac (who is likely gone).

          • Nathan Thompson

            Don’t try and tell me Woodruff has durability concerns when Espino missed the last 5 months of 2022 because reasons.

            I’m not saying Cleveland has to trade any of Espino, Bibee, or Williams. What I’m saying is the Brewers are going to be shopping for talent that fits what their organization prioritizes and what they’re lacking in… so building a deal around an outfielder or a shortstop isn’t going to work.

        • Big Bat

          Turang’s glove does not grade the same as Rocchio’s at SS and Turang played more CF this year than SS. The comparison at SS isn’t even close really. Turang lacks Rocchio’s power and ability to switch hit. Rocchio is 2 yrs younger at the same level.

          If they need pitching that’s fine. I offered them 2 SP. One of which has already debuted after progressing very quickly through Cleveland’s system and the other is a very good SP prospect that made his AAA debut this season being yrs younger than the average AAA pitcher.

          If they want Gaddis instead of Allen Cleveland would be only happy to oblige. He’s got “big stuff”. Maybe Hankins if Cleveland would part with him. Neither are as valued as Allen, but whatever floats their boat and isn’t named Espino, Bibee or Williams because that’s not going to happen. I think I would prefer Lauer anyway and he would require nearly as much in return.

          • J.M. F.

            According to Milb.com Brice Turang had 13 starts in center field while starting 103 games at SS in 2022. Don’t let facts get in the way of your argument. Sorry, I could not resist proving you wrong again.

          • Nathan Thompson

            Turnag played 104 games at SS in 2022, that’s more games at the 6 than Rocchio played (77). Both players earned 60 Field with MLB and Fangraphs.

            https://www.fangraphs.com/players/brice-turang/sa3008294/stats?position=SS

            https://www.fangraphs.com/players/brayan-rocchio/sa3005898/stats?position=SS

            Again, I prefer Rocchio. But the more pertinent question is why would the Brewers trade Woodruff for a slight upgrade over what they already have in-house?

            You offered two pitchers but the bulk of the trade value was covered by players the Brewers don’t really need. Curry is probably fine as the 3rd piece but you aren’t offering Milwaukee what they want and need; which is a potential impact arm. Gaddis was sitting at 93.5 in his big league debut and based on what I’ve read I have no idea why you’d mention his stuff in the same discussion as Espino, Williams, Bibee.

            Quit acting like the Guardians are the only team in baseball with young talent worth trading for.

  4. Big Bat

    How do you know what exactly MIL wants or needs? You said they need pitching initially and there were 2 SP in the package along with a better, higher rated SS prospect that is 2 yrs younger at the same level that switch hits and has more power.

    Gaddis frequently hits 96 and where in the hell did I lump him in with Espino, Williams or Bibee. That’s rhetorical because I didn’t. You mentioned they want SP prospects that have power stuff even if they lack control so I mentioned him. Here’s what one article stated nevermind that I’ve witnessed him hitting 97:

    ” His four-seamer sits in the low-to-mid 90s, touching into the upper 90s on occasion. His slider has good run and vertical movement, making it good for swings-and-misses. The curve has strong movement and action, and profiles as a potentially good secondary pitch. The changeup is perhaps Gaddis’ strongest secondary weapon, playing well off the fastball from the same arm slot with good downward break.”

    Never have I acted like Cleveland is the only team in baseball with young talent worth trading for. You can find numerous examples of me arguing this on this site so you can quit stating BS referring to me. I didn’t say Turang wasn’t worth trading for. What I did say and continue to say is that Turang is not as good/highly rated defensively and overall when compared to Rocchio which is why Rocchio is rated higher on every prospect list you can find. He’s more than just “a little better” than Turang which is what you stated.

    In the end MIL may have no interest in Rocchio and that’s fine. All we can do is go by the information we’ve gathered or what is given to us here. If MIL will be holding out for a SP prospect like Espino, Williams or Bibee then I’d bet Woodruff will be pitching for the Brewers in 23. From what I can gather they will be looking to reduce payroll and move some of their SP that is getting expensive. I’ve moved on from the idea because I’d rather get Lauer at his value here than Woodruff at his.

    • Nathan Thompson

      How do I know what Milwaukee likes?

      It’s called research.

      Next time read the stuff before you copy and paste. Thank you for confirming what I said about Gaddis’ fastball. Low-90’s is prety much average for a RHP these days so I’m not sure why you think it’s special, especially in comparison to guys like Espino, Williams, and Bibee who are sitting 94-97 and touching higher.

      Same source, by the way.

      And if you can’t figure out why the Brewers aren’t going to be anxious to trade Woodruff for Rocchio as the centerpiece when they already have Turang (and Adames)… well, the problem isn’t unrealistic expectations from Brewer nation.

    • Nathan Thompson

      As for the BS you accuse me of…

      You: “Never have I acted like Cleveland is the only team in baseball with young talent worth trading for.”

      Also you: “If MIL will be holding out for a SP prospect like Espino, Williams or Bibee then I’d bet Woodruff will be pitching for the Brewers in 23.”

      OR they could trade him to one of the other 28 teams if one of them is willing to include build a deal around a high-ceiling arm.

      You: “What I did say and continue to say is that Turang is not as good/highly rated defensively and overall when compared to Rocchio”

      This is a lie. MLB and Fangraphs give both players the same grade with the Glove. BA gives the edge to Rocchio, Davenport has Turang as 8 runs better than Rocchio at SS. And since you can’t tell the difference between Turang at SS vs. CF no one is going to take your word that Rocchio has the better glove via an eye test.

      I agree that Rocchio is the better prospect but again, that’s not the point. The point you have repeatedly failed to explain is why the Brewers would prefer to add a better SS prospect when they have a quality SS prospect at the cusp of the big leagues and clearly have needs elsewhere.

      You: “All we can do is go by the information we’ve gathered or what is given to us here.”

      Says the person who couldn’t be bothered to figure out that Milwaukee’s Top 10 features 5 outfielders and 3 middle infielders.

    • Michael Dietz

      Brewers fan here. I tend to agree with the posters saying that the players you listed aren’t going to move the needle. The trade might end up looking fair “on paper” but the needs don’t line up with what Milwaukee would want. Brewers are super deep in the minors at both SS and OF and if they were to trade one of their starters, they’d need a top-100 pitching prospect in return.

      The club loves Turang, who is only one year and one month older than Rocchio (BT = 23 years and 9 days old vs BR = 21 years and 321 days). The only reason he’s been playing some CF/3B/2B is because the Brewers have Adames at SS blocking him in an everyday role. Because of the current construction of the roster, he needed to add some defensive flexibility or risk being stuck at AAA for the foreseeable future.

      They also have Eric Brown (’22 1R pick), Eduardo Garcia (19 at A+ with pop), Daniel Guilarte (2021 INTL signing) and Dylan O’Rae (’22 3R pick) at SS behind Turang in the org.

      Allen has a ton of RP risk and Curry is a slight-framed guy who gets by on FB deception rather than “stuff”. The Brewers like drafting those kinds of guys, but in this case I don’t think they would love them as a return for a pitcher like Woody. I think Gavin Williams would have to be a part of this deal or it never gets off the ground, frankly.

  5. Tyler Dietz

    brewers laugh and hang up, they are not trading an ace level starter for a headliner that is very high risk, in a position they have tons of depth in, and two meh prospects, they need significantly more and this ain’t it

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