Cardinals & Guardians




Cardinals & Guardians

February 23, 2023


Name Age Level P1 P2 Availablility Years AFV Salary Surplus Low Median High
Bieber 28 Majors SP Very low 2 86.4 25 61.4 49.1 61.4 73.6
Tena Minors SS 4.2 3.4 4.2 5


Name Age Level P1 P2 Availablility Years AFV Salary Surplus Low Median High
Graceffo Minors RHP 15 12 15 18
Herrera Minors C 11 8.8 11 13.2
Nootbaar 25 Majors OF Medium 5 70.5 30.7 39.8 31.8 39.8 47.8
  1. Eli Kov

    @DiehardCards28 …this may not take place for no less than 120 days. i.e. approaching the ASB as both club would want to know what they have and what they need.. So, try this suggested deal in place of the collection of guys from your previous trade suggestion..

    Walker would be promoted to take Nooot’s spot… so, the Cardinals ML club would see an addition of a TOR SP along with their best prospect.. but would sacrifice a potential TOR SP (Graceffo), a starting OF’er and the catcher deemed as Yadi’s heir apparent that is anything but apparent at this point.


    • Aidan Donoviel

      this would work if only bieber was given up. those 3 for bieber only is something that CLEL would do.

      • Eli Kov

        Perhaps you can clarify, please:

        …are you saying that Cleveland would be okay with the deal but only if Tena was dropped?


        something else?

        • Aidan Donoviel

          if tena was dropped. I think that this particular 3 for 1 would be something CLE jumps on immediatly and one the Cardinals should still be comfortable with. Of Course STL would love to take on Tena or an extra player, but if CLE insists on only dealing Bieber, this would be a good trade

  2. Big Bat

    How do you envision Nootbaar fitting in? That’s not asked with any sarcasm either. I’m just trying to wrap my head around it because I think I like the deal, but I’m not certain. We could potentially have and OF consisting of Kwan, Brennan and Nootbaar which might make us susceptible LHP. I envision OGon taking over the majority of DH AB when Bell moves on. We also have Valera and DeLauter who are both LHH as well. I’m all for moving Valera in a package for a SP and DeLauter is at least 2 yrs away.

    I love the idea of adding Graceffo to the mix, especially with the uncertainty of Espino, but I still prefer a deal with the Dodgers.

    Herrera is a great fit and I don’t think that could be questioned. Pretty much the ideal partner for Bo going forward.

    • Eli Kov

      While it’s a SSS, Noot’s splits are decidedly reversed… and it’s by a big margin.. It’s almost as if he’s a RHH facing a LHP.. He’s young and just coming into his own.. He had 6 AB’s in postseason (a micro-sampling) & hit in the clutch.. Having Noot would absolutely keep Josh Naylor from ever stinking up RF.. a collateral bonus, imho..

      The purpose for Noot is that I don’t believe SpongeBob is long for the grass.. He’ll be out there as long as there isn’t a more than adequate replacement which won’t take much. (Noot is that.. so is Brennan but only against RHP’s with the SSS caveat) Spongebob is going to either work his ass off and become an average defensive player.. pick up a shovel (1B) or be a DH.. I’m guessing, he’ll be serviceable in the OF.. never more than that & DH..

      Because the deal doesn’t take place until the ASB, it will be either a time to consider discussions with Bell to up his contract for the 2024 season or to trade/flip of him for something/anything that will be worthwhile for the club. My fear is, Bell can be a BEAST but, he’s a very “short term” guy. I like the idea of Bell starting the 2023 season with a Flying “G” logo on his sleeve, but, we all got to watch him crash and burn when he moved to the NL West when traded at the deadline last year. It was a clear indication of an old guy ‘running out of gas’. A repeat could be a major disappointment for the Guardians who pride themselves on second half surges.

      I’d love to have an OF group (Kwan, Straw, Spongebob, Brennan, Noot and/or Valera in AAA) that can play all three OF spots & are handed enough to exploit our opponents. Valera is very close and could force his way onto the roster at some time. I can see Brennan forcing the Guards hand by making Straw expendable while having Kwan as the primary back up CF followed by Valera when he’s called up late in the season. There are enough clubs with a need for a CF’er that I’d love to have one to trade without hurting the ML club: (read: trade straw)

      DeLauter is two plus years away and should be a factor sometime in the 2025 season and certainly in the 2026 season.

      Graceffo.. we agree..

      Ivan..we also agree.. He is a perfect compliment to Bo and the Guardians idea of what a catcher is..

      Thanks for the response..

      • Aidan Donoviel

        I think an outfield of Noot, Kwan, and Spongebob would be excellent. You could concievably run a 3 lefty outfield with brennan instead of Gonzalez because Bell(switch), Zunino, JRam(switch), and Rosario all can hit righty.

        Straw isnn’t strting caliber and Valera needs to hit for more average before he is MLB ready, but even so, the outfield depth is incredible. you can’t go wrong with any lineup of OFs (as long as straw is no starting).

        lots of room to tinker around too as Valera, Brennan, Gonzalez all have options.

        • Big Bat

          That would be a very good OF, but the logjam doesn’t stop in the OF. Naylor is supposed to be getting reps in RF with OGon and splitting 1B/DH duties with Bell. Next year at this time if Bell were to opt out of his deal, the OGon could take over DH duties, Naylor could go to 1B, Kwan back to LF, Nootbaar to RF and hopefully a better hitter than Straw in CF(Brennan or Valera). Kwan doesn’t play a bad CF either so it could be an opening in LF.

  3. Ty Archy

    I’d really doubt Cleveland would want Nootbaar… He just doesn’t fit a want or need…

    • Big Bat

      “He just doesn’t fit a want or need” is a silly, ridiculous statement. He provided the Cardinals with a better OPS+ than OGon gave us and plays excellent defense in RF. GG worthy defense actually. How that isn’t a “want or need” is statement I’d like to see elaborated on. Are they not interested in getting better? Now, it probably doesn’t work because someone would have to go, but Nootbaar is both a want and a need.

      • Ty Archy

        So where does Cleveland play him? Kwan is in LF, that’s his spot period… Straw is in CF and whether you like it or not, that’s his spot. Lootbaar is a RF… OGonz has RF at the moment and Brennan and Valera are at/near MLB ready. Kwan isn’t moving to CF and even if CF was taken by Brennan, we still have OGonz. You have to OGonz to bench or minors to play Lootbaar. OGonz isn’t a good bench guy since he doesn’t play defense well anywhere.

        I’m not saying Lootbaar is a bad player, it’s just the OF is set and so is DH/1B for 23. We aren’t trading Bieber for a guy who doesn’t legitimately have an MLB spot that costs 39 value.

        If we didn’t acquire Bell and trusted Arias at 1B more then yeah, this move makes more sense on paper, but right now it doesn’t. We wouldn’t have any return on this deal in 23 since Herrera would be a backup and Graceffo isn’t MLB ready. Lootbaar and Gonzalez make the same WAR in 23 on paper and since Lootbaar nor Kwan are plus in CF, we lost Bieber’s WAR without replacing it on paper.

        • Big Bat

          I had a long winded reply, but decided to keep it short. I don’t care about this deal really and my first reply should have told you that, but if they wanted to be a better baseball team in 23 then Nootbaar fits in RF and everything else works itself out.

          Straw is the Austin Hedges of CFers. The absolute worst hitting CFer in all of baseball. Deal with that fact.

          I’d much rather deal Bieber to the Dodgers.

          • Ty Archy

            You know that OGonz had the same amount of WAR as Nootbaar in 22 with less games right? Lol

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